From ronknapperpub@yahoo.com Sat Sep 8 01:15:49 2007 From: ronknapperpub@yahoo.com (RK) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 17:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Unfortunately the sheer momentum of the masses may still carry MS's format into another defacto standard. How can we make the non-technical users understand the importance of the decision? Ron --- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: > Excellent article Jack! > > Regards, Mac.......... > > -----Original Message----- > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org > [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf > Of Jack > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:17 AM > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS > > Thought you all may like to see this. > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=20180301 > 2 > > > > All for now > Jack > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 From fatpuppystew@gmail.com Sat Sep 8 17:53:42 2007 From: fatpuppystew@gmail.com (Mike Robinson) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:53:42 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. Mike On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > Unfortunately the sheer momentum of the masses may > still carry MS's format into another defacto standard. > > How can we make the non-technical users understand the > importance of the decision? > > Ron > > --- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: > > > Excellent article Jack! > > > > Regards, Mac.......... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org > > [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf > > Of Jack > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:17 AM > > To: qclug@qclug.org > > Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS > > > > Thought you all may like to see this. > > > > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=20180301 > > 2 > > > > > > > > All for now > > Jack > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From preludelinux@gmail.com Wed Sep 12 23:59:39 2007 From: preludelinux@gmail.com (Noah Norris) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:59:39 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] ati amd to open up video drivers Message-ID: <65dc1580709121559y2addf33q5f7283999bc72a1f@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment its official AMD has committed to releasing an open source driver and specs to ATI video cards. as of right now about 900 pages of documentation has been released for a couple cards (r630 i think ) http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/09/12/1747202.shtml so how many video card companies now don't provide documentation intel and amd/ati does now that leaves one other company to open up now wondering if nvidia would follow suit if nvidia would follow we would have a interesting development , linux will not have video card driver problems any more ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/c0142615/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com Thu Sep 13 00:32:53 2007 From: roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com (Roadkill the Avatar of Misfortune) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:32:53 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Small blip.. Message-ID: <200709121832.53122.roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com> Had a little bit of a snafu with the box for a sec there, everything should be happy again. (assuming this message goes out/comes in... whee!! ) Sorry gang... things have been a little crazy for me, have had to cram a lot of things together lately, and was working a little to fast...heh.. Anyways, enjoy rk From preludelinux@gmail.com Thu Sep 13 03:05:55 2007 From: preludelinux@gmail.com (Noah Norris) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:05:55 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] ati amd to open up video drivers In-Reply-To: <65dc1580709121559y2addf33q5f7283999bc72a1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <65dc1580709121559y2addf33q5f7283999bc72a1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65dc1580709121905k622214fej4a132e3b9712625f@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment its official AMD has committed to releasing an open source driver and specs to ATI video cards. as of right now about 900 pages of documentation has been released for a couple cards (r630 i think ) http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/09/12/1747202.shtml so how many video card companies now don't provide documentation intel and amd/ati does now that leaves one other company to open up now wondering if nvidia would follow suit if nvidia would follow we would have a interesting development , linux will not have video card driver problems any more ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/5f7e9280/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Thu Sep 13 16:13:18 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:13:18 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> Message-ID: <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> Mike Robinson wrote: > What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always > surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! > > Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand > compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. > > Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is > still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice > to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. > > Mike > > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > >> >>******How can we make the non-technical users understand the >>******importance of the decision? >> >>Ron >> >>--- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>> The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? Also, with the number of different municipalities, other jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non governmental organizations that interact with government in and around the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are willing to do the same, even a little bit?? "Many hands make light work." Jim From roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com Thu Sep 13 16:55:18 2007 From: roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com (Roadkill the Avatar of Misfortune) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:55:18 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> Message-ID: <200709131055.18251.roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com> Jim, While I hate to contradict... (okay, well maybe I don't.. heh) As far as I was aware, the QCLug was intended to be a "general linux help desk" so that members of the Quad Cities (and beyond) could hopefully come to us for help with their problems... Be them from beginners just starting to learn about linux, and help deciding on which distro to choose, to advanced applications.. Granted most projects out there have very good documentation, but sometimes it's just plain easier to ask for help than to pour for hours over very clinical documentation. When someone else has probably been through the same struggles you are currently going through, it's very nice to know there is help out there. While I worked at IR, I refrained from asking to many questions about the various things I was working on since it was a major part of my job to learn these things.. And while I think people who are being paid by a company to manage their linux systems should not overly use the LUG for the completion of their duties. I don't think we should spurn anyone who comes to us for help with Linux or linux-related problems. There is a lot of knowledge in the Quad Cities, and to squander it would be such a horrible waste. Just my thoughts... rk On Thursday 13 September 2007 10:13, Jim Hall wrote: > Mike Robinson wrote: > > What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always > > surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! > > > > Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand > > compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. > > > > Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is > > still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice > > to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. > > > > Mike > > > > On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > >>******How can we make the non-technical users understand the > >>******importance of the decision? > >> > >>Ron > >> > >>--- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: > >>>_______________________________________________ > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other jurisdictions, > quasi-governmental organizations, and other non governmental > organizations that interact with government in and around the QC we (and > I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find one who will > give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing to hold their > hands while they go through the teething process. That means some > on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know the LUG was > never intended to be a general help desk (and still shouldn't), BUT, if > you want to change the world, you have to get your hands in the dirt. > I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are willing to do the > same, even a little bit?? > > "Many hands make light work." > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From volunteer@revealed.net Thu Sep 13 18:43:43 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:43 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <200709131055.18251.roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com> Message-ID: <46E976CF.1080108@revealed.net> Roadkill the Avatar of Misfortune wrote: > Jim, > > While I hate to contradict... (okay, well maybe I don't.. heh) > > As far as I was aware, the QCLug was intended to be a "general linux help > desk" so that members of the Quad Cities (and beyond) could hopefully come to > us for help with their problems... Be them from beginners just starting to > learn about linux, and help deciding on which distro to choose, to advanced > applications.. > > Granted most projects out there have very good documentation, but sometimes > it's just plain easier to ask for help than to pour for hours over very > clinical documentation. When someone else has probably been through the same > struggles you are currently going through, it's very nice to know there is > help out there. > > While I worked at IR, I refrained from asking to many questions about the > various things I was working on since it was a major part of my job to learn > these things.. And while I think people who are being paid by a company to > manage their linux systems should not overly use the LUG for the completion > of their duties. I don't think we should spurn anyone who comes to us for > help with Linux or linux-related problems. > > There is a lot of knowledge in the Quad Cities, and to squander it would be > such a horrible waste. > > Just my thoughts... > > rk > > On Thursday 13 September 2007 10:13, Jim Hall wrote: > >>Mike Robinson wrote: >> >>>What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always >>>surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! >>> >>>Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand >>>compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. >>> >>>Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is >>>still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice >>>to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. >>> >>>Mike >>> >>>On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: >>> >>>>******How can we make the non-technical users understand the >>>>******importance of the decision? >>>> >>>>Ron >>>> >>>>--- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>> >>The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? >> >>Also, with the number of different municipalities, other jurisdictions, >>quasi-governmental organizations, and other non governmental >>organizations that interact with government in and around the QC we (and >>I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find one who will >>give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing to hold their >>hands while they go through the teething process. That means some >>on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know the LUG was >>never intended to be a general help desk (and still shouldn't), BUT, if >>you want to change the world, you have to get your hands in the dirt. >>I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are willing to do the >>same, even a little bit?? >> >>"Many hands make light work." >>Jim >> >>_______________________________________________ >> > > I was thinking of some of your points because of the mess I got the LUG into with the Reader. I guess I should have said we weren't intended to be a free IT group? At any rate, I don't want to repeat that situation. And I don't want to be the lone sparkplug, because, I'm apparently not charismatic enough to do that. If there needs to be a discussion about this (hopefully resulting in doing something), then it should be as the LUG, not as Jim Hall. Is there any more clarity there? "Think globally, act locally" Jim From j.brun@mchsi.com Thu Sep 13 21:29:55 2007 From: j.brun@mchsi.com (John Brun) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:29:55 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> Message-ID: <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> I am not sure if there is a stigma associated with government software, as much as there is an empire in the government that needs to be dealt with. Software is decided nationally. Somebody is some office makes the decision that "Word 2003 is now the only accepted format" and that is that. The govt. spends the money and gets the software. Same goes with operating systems. Since the decision is based on the opinion of a handful of people then forced down the throats of the rest of the government entity, the software choices are usually limed to whatever Dell, or Gateway sells. In my experience, the software "people" who make the decision aren't really that knowledgeable. They rely on the rest of us (employees at the local offices) to do all the tech support and "fix" their problems. The fact that Ubuntu, or SuSE, or even Windows 2000 would be better choices at certain offices doesn't ever come into play. Just that we are told how we're to be set up. (this is exactly why we don't want government deciding health care issues, but I'll leave that to the other forums) One other thing. There are big national systems that are running on RHEL. I use one every day. I am not sure what the exact reasons for setting that system up was, ( i could guess security) but the system is virtually flawless. John Jim Hall wrote: > Mike Robinson wrote: >> What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always >> surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! >> >> Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand >> compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. >> >> Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is >> still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice >> to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. >> >> Mike >> >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: >> >>> >>> ******How can we make the non-technical users understand the >>> ******importance of the decision? >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> --- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> > > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other > jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non > governmental organizations that interact with government in and around > the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find > one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing > to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That > means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know > the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still > shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your > hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are > willing to do the same, even a little bit?? > > "Many hands make light work." > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > From fatpuppystew@gmail.com Thu Sep 13 23:08:13 2007 From: fatpuppystew@gmail.com (Mike Robinson) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:08:13 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <1189721293.3304.11.camel@home7> I agree to disagree. I can't say its not empire building, but I believe it is more likely the need to have a belly button to push when something doesn't work - RHEL being one of those. In recent experience, I saw a perfectly functioning Fedora Core server taken down and replaced with RHEL because FC isn't "approved", so we now have a known entity to come to our rescue (at a price). A quite useful print screen utility (windows based) was recently dumped as well - reason given was open source. Paranoia over peace of mind? mike On Thu, 2007-09-13 at 15:29 -0500, John Brun wrote: > I am not sure if there is a stigma associated with government software, > as much as there is an empire in the government that needs to be dealt > with. Software is decided nationally. Somebody is some office makes > the decision that "Word 2003 is now the only accepted format" and that > is that. The govt. spends the money and gets the software. Same goes > with operating systems. > > Since the decision is based on the opinion of a handful of people then > forced down the throats of the rest of the government entity, the > software choices are usually limed to whatever Dell, or Gateway sells. > In my experience, the software "people" who make the decision aren't > really that knowledgeable. They rely on the rest of us (employees at > the local offices) to do all the tech support and "fix" their problems. > The fact that Ubuntu, or SuSE, or even Windows 2000 would be better > choices at certain offices doesn't ever come into play. Just that we > are told how we're to be set up. (this is exactly why we don't want > government deciding health care issues, but I'll leave that to the other > forums) > > One other thing. There are big national systems that are running on > RHEL. I use one every day. I am not sure what the exact reasons for > setting that system up was, ( i could guess security) but the system is > virtually flawless. > > > John > > Jim Hall wrote: > > Mike Robinson wrote: > >> What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always > >> surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! > >> > >> Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand > >> compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. > >> > >> Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is > >> still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice > >> to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> ******How can we make the non-technical users understand the > >>> ******importance of the decision? > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> --- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? > > > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other > > jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non > > governmental organizations that interact with government in and around > > the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find > > one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing > > to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That > > means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know > > the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still > > shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your > > hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are > > willing to do the same, even a little bit?? > > > > "Many hands make light work." > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Thu Sep 13 23:10:52 2007 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:10:52 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On 9/13/07, John Brun wrote: > > I am not sure if there is a stigma associated with government software, > as much as there is an empire in the government that needs to be dealt > with. Software is decided nationally. Somebody is some office makes > the decision that "Word 2003 is now the only accepted format" and that > is that. The govt. spends the money and gets the software. Same goes > with operating systems. > > Since the decision is based on the opinion of a handful of people then > forced down the throats of the rest of the government entity, the > software choices are usually limed to whatever Dell, or Gateway sells. > In my experience, the software "people" who make the decision aren't > really that knowledgeable. They rely on the rest of us (employees at > the local offices) to do all the tech support and "fix" their problems. > The fact that Ubuntu, or SuSE, or even Windows 2000 would be better > choices at certain offices doesn't ever come into play. Just that we > are told how we're to be set up. (this is exactly why we don't want > government deciding health care issues, but I'll leave that to the other > forums) > > One other thing. There are big national systems that are running on > RHEL. I use one every day. I am not sure what the exact reasons for > setting that system up was, ( i could guess security) but the system is > virtually flawless. > > > John > > Jim Hall wrote: > > Mike Robinson wrote: > >> What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always > >> surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! > >> > >> Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand > >> compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. > >> > >> Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is > >> still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice > >> to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> ******How can we make the non-technical users understand the > >>> ******importance of the decision? > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> --- "McKnight, Lee" wrote: > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? > > > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other > > jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non > > governmental organizations that interact with government in and around > > the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find > > one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing > > to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That > > means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know > > the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still > > shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your > > hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are > > willing to do the same, even a little bit?? > > > > "Many hands make light work." > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Two observations. 1) I'm not so sure that what the City of Davenport runs is determined in D.C. BTW, part of their system was/is UNIX. 2) RHEL is, if I'm not mistaken, a "support by customer pay" version of Red Hat. There are the expected contracts and "pick up the phone and someone comes". The reason governments and almost all businesses except "Mom & Pops" love this system is because (as you said), they are not knowledgeable. And, far more importantly, they are not culpable if and when it breaks; but will take the credit if it works. So it's much the safer thing for their careers. At any rate, we are really only able to deal with the greater QC area. I hope that's an easier nut to crack. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/fae8263a/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From arronlorenz@gmail.com Thu Sep 13 23:54:52 2007 From: arronlorenz@gmail.com (Arron Lorenz) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:54:52 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <30cf66b30709131554r69585a3bn9bdc87adbc31164e@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Well I've been following this discussion while i was at work today. So here's my two cents. I think that the stand point of the LUG ought to be "Action through education" I think it would be great to get our city's government transformed to a more Linux friendly environment but the issue with that is the FUD that is associated with free software from the current for-pay software vendors. If I were to start attacking this issue I would start with Linux friendly PC's for public use... At public libraries and school libraries. Linux has a lot to offer these low budget facilities. If we could educate and convert our smaller public facilities and possibly offer some type of free monthly clinic open to the public for free software education then we could make a better case for a higher demand system. I guess what i'm trying to say is that if Blue Grass, Iowa can be converted to Linux/Free software for it's office PC's and they don't explode then why can't a larger community make the switch? Regards, Arron On 9/13/07, Jim Hall wrote: > > On 9/13/07, John Brun wrote: > > > > I am not sure if there is a stigma associated with government software, > > as much as there is an empire in the government that needs to be dealt > > with. Software is decided nationally. Somebody is some office makes > > the decision that "Word 2003 is now the only accepted format" and that > > is that. The govt. spends the money and gets the software. Same goes > > with operating systems. > > > > Since the decision is based on the opinion of a handful of people then > > forced down the throats of the rest of the government entity, the > > software choices are usually limed to whatever Dell, or Gateway sells. > > In my experience, the software "people" who make the decision aren't > > really that knowledgeable. They rely on the rest of us (employees at > > the local offices) to do all the tech support and "fix" their problems. > > The fact that Ubuntu, or SuSE, or even Windows 2000 would be better > > choices at certain offices doesn't ever come into play. Just that we > > are told how we're to be set up. (this is exactly why we don't want > > government deciding health care issues, but I'll leave that to the other > > > > forums) > > > > One other thing. There are big national systems that are running on > > RHEL. I use one every day. I am not sure what the exact reasons for > > setting that system up was, ( i could guess security) but the system is > > virtually flawless. > > > > > > John > > > > Jim Hall wrote: > > > Mike Robinson wrote: > > >> What I've found is it always comes down to price. People are always > > >> surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! > > >> > > >> Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand > > >> compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. > > >> > > >> Government acceptance would help to. I work for the DoD and there is > > > > >> still a stigma associated with open source software that would be > > nice > > >> to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. > > >> > > >> Mike > > >> > > >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> ******How can we make the non-technical users understand the > > >>> ******importance of the decision? > > >>> > > >>> Ron > > >>> > > >>> --- "McKnight, Lee" < LMcKnight@bandag.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? > > > > > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other > > > jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non > > > governmental organizations that interact with government in and around > > > > > the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find > > > one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing > > > to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That > > > means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know > > > the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still > > > shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your > > > > > hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are > > > willing to do the same, even a little bit?? > > > > > > "Many hands make light work." > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Two observations. > 1) I'm not so sure that what the City of Davenport runs is determined in > D.C. BTW, part of their system was/is UNIX. > 2) RHEL is, if I'm not mistaken, a "support by customer pay" version of > Red Hat. There are the expected contracts and "pick up the phone and someone > comes". The reason governments and almost all businesses except "Mom & Pops" > love this system is because (as you said), they are not knowledgeable. And, > far more importantly, they are not culpable if and when it breaks; but will > take the credit if it works. So it's much the safer thing for their careers. > > At any rate, we are really only able to deal with the greater QC area. I > hope that's an easier nut to crack. > > Jim > -- From: Arron James Lorenz Reach Global Networks LLC MobileTek Inc 563-579-7046 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/6f01abd4/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Fri Sep 14 02:25:41 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:25:41 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <30cf66b30709131554r69585a3bn9bdc87adbc31164e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46E9E315.7060805@revealed.net> Arron Lorenz wrote: > Well I?ve been following this discussion while i was at work today. So > here?s my two cents. > > I think that the stand point of the LUG ought to be "Action through > education" > > I think it would be great to get our city?s government transformed to a > more Linux friendly environment but the issue with that is the FUD that > is associated with free software from the current for-pay software > vendors. If I were to start attacking this issue I would start with > Linux friendly PC?s for public use... At public libraries and school > libraries. Linux has a lot to offer these low budget facilities. > > If we could educate and convert our smaller public facilities and > possibly offer some type of free monthly clinic open to the public for > free software education then we could make a better case for a higher > demand system. > > I guess what i?m trying to say is that if Blue Grass, Iowa can be > converted to Linux/Free software for it?s office PC?s and they don?t > explode then why can?t a larger community make the switch? > > Regards, > Arron > > > > Two observations. > 1) I?m not so sure that what the City of Davenport runs is > determined in D.C. BTW, part of their system was/is UNIX. > 2) RHEL is, if I?m not mistaken, a "support by customer pay" > version of Red Hat. There are the expected contracts and "pick up > the phone and someone comes". The reason governments and almost all > businesses except "Mom & Pops" love this system is because (as you > said), they are not knowledgeable. And, far more importantly, they > are not culpable if and when it breaks; but will take the credit if > it works. So it?s much the safer thing for their careers. > > At any rate, we are really only able to deal with the greater QC > area. I hope that?s an easier nut to crack. > > Jim > > > > > -- > From: > Arron James Lorenz > Reach Global Networks LLC > MobileTek Inc > 563-579-7046 Libraries and schools are still government. However, as far as public clinics are concerned, I might have an idea. Our previous Installfests and Demo Days were fairly large undertakings. Don't think we could do one at the moment. But, we could do a public clinic sort of thing at the Davenport Fairmont Library if we approach it properly. Libraries are very big on education related events. If there is any interest from the membership, we could make this work. Jim P.S. Arron, how did you know about Blue Grass? From dbergert@dbergert.com Fri Sep 14 02:50:47 2007 From: dbergert@dbergert.com (David D. Bergert) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:50:47 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> This thread and the topic relating to City Governments running linux = reminds me of this funny story regarding CentOS and City Manager of Tuttle, Oklahoma: http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3D127 && http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/ Pretty funny stuff. Also, I think it really comes down to the "main software application" = that an organization or municipality runs really drives the environment, and = what the vendor of that software provides, when I was last at the city = downtown I remember noting an windows system with a custom VB6 based application = that was used for online forms and printing and such. I've seen colleges and universities run RH, Oracle, apache and java, because that is what BlackBoard system requirements where, at some banks I see a few Unisys Clearpath, AIX, AS/400-iSeries and a few windows systems. I've seen a = savy IT admin run a linux box with some linux based monitoring tools, nagios, mrtg, etc. Where I do see linux, is mostly in appliances, such as = security appliances, some soho routers/firewalls printers, with a new custom gui wrapper and the organization knows it as a box and product, pays a = pretty penny for it, and doesn=92t know (or care) about the underlying O/S. I don't know if there is a "SugerCRM" product for the city market.... With many application webized, and lacking a fat pripority client, I see = a linux based desktop and OpenOffice a lot more viable solution, I think = that it will, and think we have seen more international governments take the = lead with linux and open source. Would be interesting if something could be put together that shows the community the benefits of linux and open source and how it can impact = their business, community, etc... Cheers, DB =20 ***Sent from MS Vista, because I can't current;y get by Atheros based = wi-fi card, wpa_suppliant, and Madwifi drivers working on etch, gibbon or edgy = :) From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf = Of Jim Hall Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:11 PM To: qclug@qclug.org Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS On 9/13/07, John Brun wrote: I am not sure if there is a stigma associated with government software, as much as there is an empire in the government that needs to be dealt with.=A0=A0 Software is decided nationally.=A0=A0Somebody is some office = makes the decision that "Word 2003 is now the only accepted format" and that is that.=A0=A0The govt. spends the money and gets the = software.=A0=A0Same goes with operating systems. Since the decision is based on the opinion of a handful of people then=20 forced down the throats of the rest of the government entity, the software choices are usually limed to whatever Dell, or Gateway sells. In my experience, the software "people" who make the decision aren't=20 really that knowledgeable.=A0=A0They rely on the rest of us (employees = at the local offices) to do all the tech support and "fix" their problems. The fact that Ubuntu, or SuSE, or even Windows 2000 would be better=20 choices at certain offices doesn't ever come into play.=A0=A0Just that = we are told how we're to be set up.=A0=A0(this is exactly why we don't want government deciding health care issues, but I'll leave that to the other = forums) One other thing. There are big national systems that are running on RHEL.=A0=A0I use one every day.=A0=A0I am not sure what the exact = reasons for setting that system up was, ( i could guess security) but the system is=20 virtually flawless. John Jim Hall wrote: > Mike Robinson wrote: >> What I've found is it always comes down to price.=A0=A0People are = always >> surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells!=20 >> >> Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand >> compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. >> >> Government acceptance would help to.=A0=A0I work for the DoD and = there is=20 >> still a stigma associated with open source software that would be = nice >> to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. >> >> Mike >> >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote:=20 >> >>> >>> ******How can we make the non-technical users understand the >>> ******importance of the decision? >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> --- "McKnight, Lee" < LMcKnight@bandag.com> wrote: >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> > > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups?=20 > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other > jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non > governmental organizations that interact with government in and around = > the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find > one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing > to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That=20 > means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know > the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still > shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your = > hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are > willing to do the same, even a little bit?? > > "Many hands make light work." > Jim > > _______________________________________________=20 >=20 Two observations. 1)=A0 I'm not so sure that what the City of Davenport runs is determined = in D.C. BTW, part of their system was/is UNIX. 2)=A0 RHEL is, if I'm not mistaken, a "support by customer pay" version = of Red Hat. There are the expected contracts and "pick up the phone and someone comes". The reason governments and almost all businesses except "Mom & = Pops" love this system is because (as you said), they are not knowledgeable. = And, far more importantly, they are not culpable if and when it breaks; but = will take the credit if it works. So it's much the safer thing for their = careers. At any rate, we are really only able to deal with the greater QC area. I hope that's an easier nut to crack. Jim --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and=20 dangerous content by MailScanner, and is=20 believed to be clean.=20 From arronlorenz@gmail.com Fri Sep 14 02:59:05 2007 From: arronlorenz@gmail.com (Arron Lorenz) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:59:05 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> Message-ID: <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass as an example of a small town that might be good to approach... start off with the small towns and work our way up sort of thing. Arron On 9/13/07, David D. Bergert wrote: > > This thread and the topic relating to City Governments running linux > reminds > me of this funny story regarding CentOS and City Manager of Tuttle, > Oklahoma: > > http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127 && > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/ > > Pretty funny stuff. > > Also, I think it really comes down to the "main software application" that > an organization or municipality runs really drives the environment, and > what > the vendor of that software provides, when I was last at the city downtown > I > remember noting an windows system with a custom VB6 based application that > was used for online forms and printing and such. I've seen colleges and > universities run RH, Oracle, apache and java, because that is what > BlackBoard system requirements where, at some banks I see a few Unisys > Clearpath, AIX, AS/400-iSeries and a few windows systems. I've seen a savy > IT admin run a linux box with some linux based monitoring tools, nagios, > mrtg, etc. Where I do see linux, is mostly in appliances, such as > security > appliances, some soho routers/firewalls printers, with a new custom gui > wrapper and the organization knows it as a box and product, pays a pretty > penny for it, and doesn't know (or care) about the underlying O/S. > > I don't know if there is a "SugerCRM" product for the city market.... > > With many application webized, and lacking a fat pripority client, I see a > linux based desktop and OpenOffice a lot more viable solution, I think > that > it will, and think we have seen more international governments take the > lead > with linux and open source. > > Would be interesting if something could be put together that shows the > community the benefits of linux and open source and how it can impact > their > business, community, etc... > > > Cheers, > > DB > > ***Sent from MS Vista, because I can't current;y get by Atheros based > wi-fi > card, wpa_suppliant, and Madwifi drivers working on etch, gibbon or edgy > :) > > > > > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf > Of > Jim Hall > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:11 PM > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS > > On 9/13/07, John Brun wrote: > I am not sure if there is a stigma associated with government software, > as much as there is an empire in the government that needs to be dealt > with. Software is decided nationally.Somebody is some office makes > the decision that "Word 2003 is now the only accepted format" and that > is that.The govt. spends the money and gets the software.Same goes > with operating systems. > > Since the decision is based on the opinion of a handful of people then > forced down the throats of the rest of the government entity, the > software choices are usually limed to whatever Dell, or Gateway sells. > In my experience, the software "people" who make the decision aren't > really that knowledgeable.They rely on the rest of us (employees at > the local offices) to do all the tech support and "fix" their problems. > The fact that Ubuntu, or SuSE, or even Windows 2000 would be better > choices at certain offices doesn't ever come into play.Just that we > are told how we're to be set up.(this is exactly why we don't want > government deciding health care issues, but I'll leave that to the other > forums) > > One other thing. There are big national systems that are running on > RHEL.I use one every day.I am not sure what the exact reasons for > setting that system up was, ( i could guess security) but the system is > virtually flawless. > > > John > > Jim Hall wrote: > > Mike Robinson wrote: > >> What I've found is it always comes down to price.People are always > >> surprised (and excited) when I recommend open office - free sells! > >> > >> Once the user base is built (and large enough) you can demand > >> compatibility, which is still the short fall for open office. > >> > >> Government acceptance would help to.I work for the DoD and there is > >> still a stigma associated with open source software that would be nice > >> to break, as its my tax dollars being spent as well. > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> On Fri, 2007-09-07 at 17:15 -0700, RK wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> ******How can we make the non-technical users understand the > >>> ******importance of the decision? > >>> > >>> Ron > >>> > >>> --- "McKnight, Lee" < LMcKnight@bandag.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > The two questions above suggest: local tax payer groups? > > > > Also, with the number of different municipalities, other > > jurisdictions, quasi-governmental organizations, and other non > > governmental organizations that interact with government in and around > > the QC we (and I do mean "WE" -- the members of QCLUG) can surely find > > one who will give something like OOo a try, IF some of us are willing > > to hold their hands while they go through the teething process. That > > means some on-site and some phone support availability, folks. I know > > the LUG was never intended to be a general help desk (and still > > shouldn't), BUT, if you want to change the world, you have to get your > > hands in the dirt. I'm doing my part where I am. How many of you are > > willing to do the same, even a little bit?? > > > > "Many hands make light work." > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Two observations. > 1) I'm not so sure that what the City of Davenport runs is determined in > D.C. BTW, part of their system was/is UNIX. > 2) RHEL is, if I'm not mistaken, a "support by customer pay" version of > Red > Hat. There are the expected contracts and "pick up the phone and someone > comes". The reason governments and almost all businesses except "Mom & > Pops" > love this system is because (as you said), they are not knowledgeable. > And, > far more importantly, they are not culpable if and when it breaks; but > will > take the credit if it works. So it's much the safer thing for their > careers. > > At any rate, we are really only able to deal with the greater QC area. I > hope that's an easier nut to crack. > > Jim > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > -- From: Arron James Lorenz Reach Global Networks LLC MobileTek Inc 563-579-7046 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/1cdd5f12/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Fri Sep 14 05:12:51 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:12:51 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> Arron Lorenz wrote: > Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass as an example of a small > town that might be good to approach... start off with the small towns > and work our way up sort of thing. > > Arron > Dern it! I thought we had a toe in the door. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good place to start. > > Would be interesting if something could be put together that shows the > community the benefits of linux and open source and how it can > impact their > business, community, etc... > > > Cheers, > > DB > > Who says WE can't?? I have an ATX case I'll donate. The entire membership must have enough hardware to finish it. If we need something nobody has, we can take up a collection. That would make a piddly amount for any one of us, even me. Choosing a distro might cause a small flame war, but if we define our requirements carefully, we should be able to narrow it down to 2 or 3. If we get a big enough HD, put 2 to 4 distros on it. That might help make peace. And a good demo, besides. Jim From preludelinux@gmail.com Fri Sep 14 19:33:36 2007 From: preludelinux@gmail.com (Noah Norris) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:33:36 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> Message-ID: <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment someone needs computer parts ....... ( i think i might have way to many ) On 9/13/07, Jim Hall wrote: > > Arron Lorenz wrote: > > Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass as an example of a small > > town that might be good to approach... start off with the small towns > > and work our way up sort of thing. > > > > Arron > > > > Dern it! I thought we had a toe in the door. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be > a good place to start. > > > > > Would be interesting if something could be put together that shows > the > > community the benefits of linux and open source and how it can > > impact their > > business, community, etc... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > DB > > > > > > > Who says WE can't?? I have an ATX case I'll donate. The entire > membership must have enough hardware to finish it. If we need something > nobody has, we can take up a collection. That would make a piddly amount > for any one of us, even me. Choosing a distro might cause a small flame > war, but if we define our requirements carefully, we should be able to > narrow it down to 2 or 3. If we get a big enough HD, put 2 to 4 distros > on it. That might help make peace. And a good demo, besides. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/19b7b9e8/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From polone@townnews.com Fri Sep 14 19:33:49 2007 From: polone@townnews.com (Patrick O'Lone) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:33:49 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] [autoreply] Out of the Office Message-ID: <200709141833.l8EIXndx019698@mail2.ch2.l3.sys.townnews.com> I will be out of the office the week of September 17th - 21st on my honeymoon. I have recieved your e-mail, but I won't be responding until September 24th. For urgent issues, please call 800-293-9576 or email requests@townnews.com. From preludelinux@gmail.com Fri Sep 14 20:10:59 2007 From: preludelinux@gmail.com (Noah Norris) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:10:59 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Dell laptop 1720 Message-ID: <65dc1580709141210o116f950clc44b68d4ecb0f471@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment well i finally got my laptop... about 2 month wait installing ubuntu linux on it was easier then installing windows xp just had to use an alternative install cd downlod envy and load the nvidia drivers had to install newer alsa to be able to use headphones and auto mute internal speakers ( but sound worked out of the box ) also needed to get sound after a hibernate. the only thing that dont work in linux is the webcam ( but theres a driver in progress i can get the light for it to flicker ... ) media card slots untested but from what i heard one works the others dont but might in the future. side note it runs both doom3 and quake4 nicely Dell 1720 17" 1440x900 2.0 Ghz core2duo 2gb ram ( upgradeable to 4) nvidia 8600gt (256mb ram) ( rgb and s-video / composite / component out ) modem network and wifi (3945 Intel ) 2x 160 gb Sata hard drives ( waiting payed off got a free 160 gb HD ) webcam Intel audio ( w/ built in mics ) USB and Firewire Windows vista (wiped ) ( installed xp for office 2007 for school /sigh ) Now installing windows XP was not that fun . ( now this is with a nlite modified xp install with all updates and driverpacks install for all drivers still no love ....) you have to download a hacked inf file from laptop2go.com to use the nvidia drivers to get sound you have to download the driver for the vostro 1500 for the modem the vostro 1000 ( for audio i have tried 20+ drivers and non worked except the 1500 driver ) it looks like video and audio drivers soon for xp might become rare because the drivers for vista are different becuase of there changes. dell only has drivers for sata intel MB media cards webcam for xp .... anyone know of any good HD tv's im looking for a tv with inputs for a computer high resoltions and the ability to hook up my laptop and home pc to it ( home pc has nvidia 7600 ocgt w/ dvi and vga out ) laptop only has rgb ( vga plug) 1080P would be nice also planing on getting a ps3. anyone know whats best i might just wait for prices to drop more ... lol , also is there issues with doing dvi too hdmi under linux. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/8863edea/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From polone@townnews.com Fri Sep 14 20:11:11 2007 From: polone@townnews.com (Patrick O'Lone) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:11:11 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] [autoreply] Out of the Office Message-ID: <200709141911.l8EJBBVt011432@mail1.ch2.l3.sys.townnews.com> I will be out of the office the week of September 17th - 21st on my honeymoon. I have recieved your e-mail, but I won't be responding until September 24th. For urgent issues, please call 800-293-9576 or email requests@townnews.com. From volunteer@revealed.net Sat Sep 15 01:59:34 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:59:34 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> Noah Norris wrote: > someone needs computer parts ....... ( i think i might have way to many ) > > > On 9/13/07, *Jim Hall* > wrote: > > Arron Lorenz wrote: > > Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass as an example of a small > > town that might be good to approach... start off with the small towns > > and work our way up sort of thing. > > > > Arron > > > > Dern it! I thought we had a toe in the door. Doesn?t mean it > wouldn?t be > a good place to start. > > > > > Would be interesting if something could be put together that > shows the > > community the benefits of linux and open source and how it can > > impact their > > business, community, etc... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > DB > > > > > > > Who says WE can?t?? I have an ATX case I?ll donate. The entire > membership must have enough hardware to finish it. If we need something > nobody has, we can take up a collection. That would make a piddly amount > for any one of us, even me. Choosing a distro might cause a small flame > war, but if we define our requirements carefully, we should be able to > narrow it down to 2 or 3. If we get a big enough HD, put 2 to 4 distros > on it. That might help make peace. And a good demo, besides. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > > OK, so Noah's stash helps with parts. Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass Library today. They have two computers. Used mostly for online research and Word Processing. They are part of the Scott County system. I will call them Monday and ask if there is a need for a computer and report back the answer. Jim From polone@townnews.com Sat Sep 15 02:09:01 2007 From: polone@townnews.com (Patrick O'Lone) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:09:01 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] [autoreply] Out of the Office Message-ID: <200709150109.l8F191KO025239@mail1.ch2.l3.sys.townnews.com> I will be out of the office the week of September 17th - 21st on my honeymoon. I have recieved your e-mail, but I won't be responding until September 24th. For urgent issues, please call 800-293-9576 or email requests@townnews.com. From roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com Sat Sep 15 16:25:03 2007 From: roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com (Roadkill the Avatar of Misfortune) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:25:03 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] [autoreply] Out of the Office In-Reply-To: <200709150109.l8F191KO025239@mail1.ch2.l3.sys.townnews.com> References: <200709150109.l8F191KO025239@mail1.ch2.l3.sys.townnews.com> Message-ID: <200709151025.03615.roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com> Congratulations on the marrage and the honeymoon, but I'm going to have to suspend your account to the LUG as your auto reply settings are producing unnecessary traffic. rk On Friday 14 September 2007 20:09, Patrick O'Lone wrote: > I will be out of the office the week of September 17th - 21st on my > honeymoon. I have recieved your e-mail, but I won't be responding until > September 24th. For urgent issues, please call 800-293-9576 or email > requests@townnews.com. > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From ronknapperpub@yahoo.com Sat Sep 15 22:50:54 2007 From: ronknapperpub@yahoo.com (RK) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> Message-ID: <692922.27745.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One thing I think may be missed in this discussion. Is it really Linux vs MS or open source vs MS? If we include the debate on moving to open source running on MS Office, so the move to XYZ distro of Linux becomes a virtual non-issue. If we can take the small steps of moving, as some of the earlier posts have advocated, local government agencies to such things as Mozilla Firefox and OpenOffice.org when it comes time to actually change operating systems there would be much less fight because they could use the same applications. Ron --- Jim Hall wrote: > Noah Norris wrote: > > someone needs computer parts ....... ( i think i > might have way to many ) > > > > > > On 9/13/07, *Jim Hall* > > wrote: > > > > Arron Lorenz wrote: > > > Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass > as an example of a small > > > town that might be good to approach... > start off with the small towns > > > and work our way up sort of thing. > > > > > > Arron > > > > > > > Dern it! I thought we had a toe in the door. > Doesn?t mean it > > wouldn?t be > > a good place to start. > > > > > > > > Would be interesting if something could > be put together that > > shows the > > > community the benefits of linux and > open source and how it can > > > impact their > > > business, community, etc... > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > DB > > > > > > > > > > > > Who says WE can?t?? I have an ATX case I?ll > donate. The entire > > membership must have enough hardware to finish > it. If we need something > > nobody has, we can take up a collection. That > would make a piddly amount > > for any one of us, even me. Choosing a distro > might cause a small flame > > war, but if we define our requirements > carefully, we should be able to > > narrow it down to 2 or 3. If we get a big > enough HD, put 2 to 4 distros > > on it. That might help make peace. And a good > demo, besides. > > > > Jim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > OK, so Noah's stash helps with parts. > > Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass > Library today. They > have two computers. Used mostly for online research > and Word Processing. > They are part of the Scott County system. I will > call them Monday and > ask if there is a need for a computer and report > back the answer. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From preludelinux@gmail.com Sun Sep 16 16:04:57 2007 From: preludelinux@gmail.com (Noah Norris) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:04:57 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <692922.27745.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <692922.27745.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65dc1580709160804o12ffbd32ga2987d36affb70e0@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment fully agreed If a company can use openoffice firefox and not be dependent on microsoft ( have web based apps that run in firefox etc ) then switching to linux is easy because all the software they are use to is there for them but with the push to vista now is really the time to push linux vista will not run on 95% of all work enviroment pc's and require a high reinvestment with the looks of doing it again in 3-5 years. somewhat at first linux might have a higher total cost of ownership due to training but in the long run it will not. what is needed is a package to help the transition. 1. Documentation thats easy to read and understand ( think this is starting to get better ) 2. A support network including ( docs, people, forums, groups, OS support, people local to them) 3. Programs that help with setup of services. (ease of hardware setup software install and server setup) 4. ability to play media files / install closed driver ... or it just works with all it can work with easily 5. and of course marketing like crazy ( we need more ads like spreadfirefox did but for everything ) this also depends which market you want to go for too i believe we need to focus on linux everywhere not just in schools and offices but everywhere. attack all markets. the main problem is for us locally are we gona form a group that people could find as a support network with issues and these people could be normal end users and or companies. also ever thought of doing demos for companies, schools, and public, both server side client side and normal desktop sides? ( still get that "whats linux" response too much) demoday ( its been awhile ) and installfest. doing lug lectures , demo's ( we would need to meet i think in a more educational setting, i could get a room most likely at Blackhawk College ) much planning and commitment goes into these things it all depends on us we gona be laid back and not really want to do anything and just talk about it , or we gona do something and commit some time. i will commit my time. On 9/15/07, RK wrote: > > One thing I think may be missed in this discussion. Is > it really Linux vs MS or open source vs MS? If we > include the debate on moving to open source running on > MS Office, so the move to XYZ distro of Linux becomes > a virtual non-issue. If we can take the small steps of > moving, as some of the earlier posts have advocated, > local government agencies to such things as Mozilla > Firefox and OpenOffice.org when it comes time to > actually change operating systems there would be much > less fight because they could use the same > applications. > > Ron > > --- Jim Hall wrote: > > > Noah Norris wrote: > > > someone needs computer parts ....... ( i think i > > might have way to many ) > > > > > > > > > On 9/13/07, *Jim Hall* > > > wrote: > > > > > > Arron Lorenz wrote: > > > > Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass > > as an example of a small > > > > town that might be good to approach... > > start off with the small towns > > > > and work our way up sort of thing. > > > > > > > > Arron > > > > > > > > > > Dern it! I thought we had a toe in the door. > > Doesn?t mean it > > > wouldn?t be > > > a good place to start. > > > > > > > > > > > Would be interesting if something could > > be put together that > > > shows the > > > > community the benefits of linux and > > open source and how it can > > > > impact their > > > > business, community, etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > DB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who says WE can?t?? I have an ATX case I?ll > > donate. The entire > > > membership must have enough hardware to finish > > it. If we need something > > > nobody has, we can take up a collection. That > > would make a piddly amount > > > for any one of us, even me. Choosing a distro > > might cause a small flame > > > war, but if we define our requirements > > carefully, we should be able to > > > narrow it down to 2 or 3. If we get a big > > enough HD, put 2 to 4 distros > > > on it. That might help make peace. And a good > > demo, besides. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, so Noah's stash helps with parts. > > > > Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass > > Library today. They > > have two computers. Used mostly for online research > > and Word Processing. > > They are part of the Scott County system. I will > > call them Monday and > > ask if there is a need for a computer and report > > back the answer. > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user > panel and lay it on us. > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/d28370a0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From arronlorenz@gmail.com Mon Sep 17 04:42:23 2007 From: arronlorenz@gmail.com (Arron Lorenz) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:42:23 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <65dc1580709160804o12ffbd32ga2987d36affb70e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <692922.27745.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <65dc1580709160804o12ffbd32ga2987d36affb70e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <30cf66b30709162042o71b56bc2r1759a33a31b95b26@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I can be around on nights and weekends On 9/16/07, Noah Norris wrote: > > fully agreed > > If a company can use openoffice firefox > and not be dependent on microsoft ( have web based apps that run in > firefox etc ) > then switching to linux is easy because all the software they are use to > is there for them > > but with the push to vista now is really the time to push linux > vista will not run on 95% of all work enviroment pc's and require a high > reinvestment with the looks of doing it again in 3-5 years. > > somewhat at first linux might have a higher total cost of ownership due to > training but in the long run it will not. > > what is needed is a package to help the transition. > > 1. Documentation thats easy to read and understand ( think this is > starting to get better ) > 2. A support network including ( docs, people, forums, groups, OS > support, people local to them) > 3. Programs that help with setup of services. (ease of hardware > setup software install and server setup) > 4. ability to play media files / install closed driver ... or it > just works with all it can work with easily > 5. and of course marketing like crazy ( we need more ads like > spreadfirefox did but for everything ) > > this also depends which market you want to go for too i believe we need to > focus on linux everywhere not just in schools and offices but everywhere. > attack all markets. the main problem is for us locally are we gona form a > group that people could find as a support network with issues and these > people could be normal end users and or companies. > > > also ever thought of doing demos for companies, schools, and public, both > server side client side and normal desktop sides? ( still get that "whats > linux" response too much) > > demoday ( its been awhile ) and installfest. > > doing lug lectures , demo's ( we would need to meet i think in a more > educational setting, i could get a room most likely at Blackhawk College ) > > much planning and commitment goes into these things it all depends on us > we gona be laid back and not really want to do anything and just talk about > it , or we gona do something and commit some time. i will commit my time. > > On 9/15/07, RK wrote: > > > > One thing I think may be missed in this discussion. Is > > it really Linux vs MS or open source vs MS? If we > > include the debate on moving to open source running on > > MS Office, so the move to XYZ distro of Linux becomes > > a virtual non-issue. If we can take the small steps of > > moving, as some of the earlier posts have advocated, > > local government agencies to such things as Mozilla > > Firefox and OpenOffice.org when it comes time to > > actually change operating systems there would be much > > less fight because they could use the same > > applications. > > > > Ron > > > > --- Jim Hall wrote: > > > > > Noah Norris wrote: > > > > someone needs computer parts ....... ( i think i > > > might have way to many ) > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/13/07, *Jim Hall* < volunteer@revealed.net > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Arron Lorenz wrote: > > > > > Just to clarify i was just using Blue Grass > > > as an example of a small > > > > > town that might be good to approach... > > > start off with the small towns > > > > > and work our way up sort of thing. > > > > > > > > > > Arron > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dern it! I thought we had a toe in the door. > > > Doesn?t mean it > > > > wouldn?t be > > > > a good place to start. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would be interesting if something could > > > be put together that > > > > shows the > > > > > community the benefits of linux and > > > open source and how it can > > > > > impact their > > > > > business, community, etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > DB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who says WE can?t?? I have an ATX case I?ll > > > donate. The entire > > > > membership must have enough hardware to finish > > > it. If we need something > > > > nobody has, we can take up a collection. That > > > would make a piddly amount > > > > for any one of us, even me. Choosing a distro > > > might cause a small flame > > > > war, but if we define our requirements > > > carefully, we should be able to > > > > narrow it down to 2 or 3. If we get a big > > > enough HD, put 2 to 4 distros > > > > on it. That might help make peace. And a good > > > demo, besides. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, so Noah's stash helps with parts. > > > > > > Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass > > > Library today. They > > > have two computers. Used mostly for online research > > > and Word Processing. > > > They are part of the Scott County system. I will > > > call them Monday and > > > ask if there is a need for a computer and report > > > back the answer. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > QCLUG mailing list > > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user > > panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > -- From: Arron James Lorenz Reach Global Networks LLC MobileTek Inc 563-579-7046 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/866b3be0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Mon Sep 17 23:32:42 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:32:42 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> Message-ID: <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> > Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass Library today. They > have two computers. Used mostly for online research and Word Processing. > They are part of the Scott County system. I will call them Monday and > ask if there is a need for a computer and report back the answer. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > Called the Director of the Scott County system today. His response was that Blue Grass Library could use a third computer. Kids play browser based online games so adults can't use one or both computers. A third machine "for kids" would be great. He has no problem with Linux IF: 1) the computer is powerful enough to play whatever the kids want to play 2) native Linux games installed on the HD are OK (they must approve) 3) their current IT people do not have to support it 4) remote access for most/some support is OK 5) we must promise to provide the support, any needed training and any needed documentation (details to be discussed) 6) we install firewall, antivirus, hardening, kid web site nanny, don't allow anyone to change anything (sort of like a kiosk) 7) once their IT people get Windoze printer sharing up and running we connect to the printer 8) they provide the furniture, we provide a complete system The ISP is Mediacom, the connection is low/no security wireless. Is this agreeable to the group? Jim From volunteer@revealed.net Mon Sep 17 23:41:53 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:41:53 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] [autoreply] Out of the Office References: <200709150109.l8F191KO025239@mail1.ch2.l3.sys.townnews.com> <200709151025.03615.roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com> Message-ID: <46EF02B1.9000401@revealed.net> Roadkill the Avatar of Misfortune wrote: > Congratulations on the marrage and the honeymoon, but I'm going to have to > suspend your account to the LUG as your auto reply settings are producing > unnecessary traffic. > > rk > > > On Friday 14 September 2007 20:09, Patrick O'Lone wrote: > >>I will be out of the office the week of September 17th - 21st on my >>honeymoon. I have recieved your e-mail, but I won't be responding until >>September 24th. For urgent issues, please call 800-293-9576 or email >>requests@townnews.com. >> >>_______________________________________________ >> > > Could you also starch his underwear? :-) Jim From arronlorenz@gmail.com Tue Sep 18 00:28:52 2007 From: arronlorenz@gmail.com (Arron Lorenz) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:28:52 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> Message-ID: <30cf66b30709171628s4eb70f70o7fd8dd179579d7c4@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment My only question is what/if any kinds of net nanny software exists for linux? On 9/17/07, Jim Hall wrote: > > > Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass Library today. They > > have two computers. Used mostly for online research and Word Processing. > > They are part of the Scott County system. I will call them Monday and > > ask if there is a need for a computer and report back the answer. > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Called the Director of the Scott County system today. His response was > that Blue Grass Library could use a third computer. Kids play browser > based online games so adults can't use one or both computers. A third > machine "for kids" would be great. > > He has no problem with Linux IF: > 1) the computer is powerful enough to play whatever the kids want to play > 2) native Linux games installed on the HD are OK (they must approve) > 3) their current IT people do not have to support it > 4) remote access for most/some support is OK > 5) we must promise to provide the support, any needed training and any > needed documentation (details to be discussed) > 6) we install firewall, antivirus, hardening, kid web site nanny, don't > allow anyone to change anything (sort of like a kiosk) > 7) once their IT people get Windoze printer sharing up and running we > connect to the printer > 8) they provide the furniture, we provide a complete system > > The ISP is Mediacom, the connection is low/no security wireless. > > > Is this agreeable to the group? > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > -- From: Arron James Lorenz Reach Global Networks LLC MobileTek Inc 563-579-7046 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/94aad357/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From mriedesel@gmail.com Tue Sep 18 00:32:43 2007 From: mriedesel@gmail.com (Mark Riedesel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:32:43 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <30cf66b30709171628s4eb70f70o7fd8dd179579d7c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> <30cf66b30709171628s4eb70f70o7fd8dd179579d7c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c9537490709171632o3f3db3a0x47284f43659661e8@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Dansguardian.org for starters On 9/17/07, Arron Lorenz wrote: > > My only question is what/if any kinds of net nanny software exists for > linux? > > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/51c71ec9/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Tue Sep 18 01:24:21 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:24:21 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> <30cf66b30709171628s4eb70f70o7fd8dd179579d7c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46EF1AB5.8040906@revealed.net> Arron Lorenz wrote: > My only question is what/if any kinds of net nanny software exists for > linux? > > On 9/17/07, *Jim Hall* > wrote: > > > Because I was there, I stopped at the Blue Grass Library today. They > > have two computers. Used mostly for online research and Word > Processing. > > They are part of the Scott County system. I will call them Monday and > > ask if there is a need for a computer and report back the answer. > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Called the Director of the Scott County system today. His response was > that Blue Grass Library could use a third computer. Kids play browser > based online games so adults can?t use one or both computers. A third > machine "for kids" would be great. > > He has no problem with Linux IF: > 1) the computer is powerful enough to play whatever the kids want > to play > 2) native Linux games installed on the HD are OK (they must approve) > 3) their current IT people do not have to support it > 4) remote access for most/some support is OK > 5) we must promise to provide the support, any needed training and any > needed documentation (details to be discussed) > 6) we install firewall, antivirus, hardening, kid web site nanny, don?t > allow anyone to change anything (sort of like a kiosk) > 7) once their IT people get Windoze printer sharing up and running we > connect to the printer > 8) they provide the furniture, we provide a complete system > > The ISP is Mediacom, the connection is low/no security wireless. > > > Is this agreeable to the group? > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > -- > From: > Arron James Lorenz > Reach Global Networks LLC > MobileTek Inc > 563-579-7046 iptables? Jim From mriedesel@gmail.com Tue Sep 18 02:50:36 2007 From: mriedesel@gmail.com (Mark Riedesel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:50:36 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> Message-ID: <1c9537490709171850v1bef44d7n202c1d51508f5510@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment > Called the Director of the Scott County system today. His response was > that Blue Grass Library could use a third computer. Kids play browser > based online games so adults can't use one or both computers. A third > machine "for kids" would be great. > > He has no problem with Linux IF: > 1) the computer is powerful enough to play whatever the kids want to play > 2) native Linux games installed on the HD are OK (they must approve) > 3) their current IT people do not have to support it > 4) remote access for most/some support is OK > 5) we must promise to provide the support, any needed training and any > needed documentation (details to be discussed) > 6) we install firewall, antivirus, hardening, kid web site nanny, don't > allow anyone to change anything (sort of like a kiosk) > 7) once their IT people get Windoze printer sharing up and running we > connect to the printer > 8) they provide the furniture, we provide a complete system > > The ISP is Mediacom, the connection is low/no security wireless. > > > Is this agreeable to the group? > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > If someone can provide the hardware, I'm willing to volunteer some of my time to get it up and running. Can't really make commitments toward long term support or training though. Mark ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/61a20dc0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Fri Sep 21 01:17:33 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:17:33 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <145973.67520.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1189270422.3149.7.camel@home7> <46E9538E.4050603@revealed.net> <46E99DC3.4010007@mchsi.com> <997c8c1b0709131510k5106f495o70bf009932da8bd7@mail.gmail.com> <001e01c7f671$acb6ffc0$0624ff40$@com> <30cf66b30709131859t779e4497qbc9fcfd697dcf63f@mail.gmail.com> <46EA0A43.40604@revealed.net> <65dc1580709141133j67f378aeub25847b5b815d4bc@mail.gmail.com> <46EB2E76.2070907@revealed.net> <46EF008A.6020405@revealed.net> Message-ID: <46F30D9D.7050202@revealed.net> Jim Hall wrote: > > Called the Director of the Scott County system today. His response was > that Blue Grass Library could use a third computer. Kids play browser > based online games so adults can't use one or both computers. A third > machine "for kids" would be great. > > He has no problem with Linux IF: > 1) the computer is powerful enough to play whatever the kids want to play > 2) native Linux games installed on the HD are OK (they must approve) > 3) their current IT people do not have to support it > 4) remote access for most/some support is OK > 5) we must promise to provide the support, any needed training and any > needed documentation (details to be discussed) > 6) we install firewall, antivirus, hardening, kid web site nanny, don't > allow anyone to change anything (sort of like a kiosk) > 7) once their IT people get Windoze printer sharing up and running we > connect to the printer > 8) they provide the furniture, we provide a complete system > > The ISP is Mediacom, the connection is low/no security wireless. > > > Is this agreeable to the group? > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > > Good responses everyone. Now, how powerful a CPU do we need to do what we've talked about? PIII - 1GHz range or low to mid range P4? Remember that we may need to go 2-3 years into the future with it. Jim From ronknapperpub@yahoo.com Fri Sep 21 12:15:33 2007 From: ronknapperpub@yahoo.com (RK) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 04:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46F30D9D.7050202@revealed.net> Message-ID: <517265.38805.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Don't want to hijack the thread, but could this be leveraged into having a couple of sessions on using Linux, configuring Linux, etc. The libraries are big on training programs... Ron --- Jim Hall wrote: > Jim Hall wrote: > > > > > Called the Director of the Scott County system > today. His response was > > that Blue Grass Library could use a third > computer. Kids play browser > > based online games so s can't use one or both > computers. A third > > machine "for kids" would be great. > > > > He has no problem with Linux IF: > > 1) the computer is powerful enough to play > whatever the kids want to play > > 2) native Linux games installed on the HD are OK > (they must approve) > > 3) their current IT people do not have to support > it > > 4) remote access for most/some support is OK > > 5) we must promise to provide the support, any > needed training and any > > needed documentation (details to be discussed) > > 6) we install firewall, antivirus, hardening, kid > web site nanny, don't > > allow anyone to change anything (sort of like a > kiosk) > > 7) once their IT people get Windoze printer > sharing up and running we > > connect to the printer > > 8) they provide the furniture, we provide a > complete system > > > > The ISP is Mediacom, the connection is low/no > security wireless. > > > > > > Is this agreeable to the group? > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Good responses everyone. > > Now, how powerful a CPU do we need to do what we've > talked about? PIII - > 1GHz range or low to mid range P4? Remember that we > may need to go 2-3 > years into the future with it. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From volunteer@revealed.net Sat Sep 22 04:03:28 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:03:28 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <517265.38805.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46F48600.50303@revealed.net> RK wrote: > Don't want to hijack the thread, but could this be > leveraged into having a couple of sessions on using > Linux, configuring Linux, etc. The libraries are big > on training programs... > > Ron > > >>Good responses everyone. >> >>Now, how powerful a CPU do we need to do what we've >>talked about? PIII - >>1GHz range or low to mid range P4? Remember that we >>may need to go 2-3 >>years into the future with it. >> >>Jim >> >>_______________________________________________ >> > > You're not hijacking, that was mentioned earlier. When we get this computer installed, we'll have a built in audience for just that kind of activity. But, before anything else happens, we have to have a computer! Then we can strut our stuff and preen our feathers. Oh, BTW, Blue Grass Cith Hall is in the same building. First, we have to have a computer! My vote for CPU is the P4 or equivalent AMD. That means full house, no light weights. Jim From ronknapperpub@yahoo.com Sun Sep 23 04:06:44 2007 From: ronknapperpub@yahoo.com (RK) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <46F48600.50303@revealed.net> Message-ID: <641477.31891.qm@web51803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry, best I have sitting around (working at least) is a PIII-500. Ron --- Jim Hall wrote: > RK wrote: > > Don't want to hijack the thread, but could this be > > leveraged into having a couple of sessions on > using > > Linux, configuring Linux, etc. The libraries are > big > > on training programs... > > > > Ron > > > > > >>Good responses everyone. > >> > >>Now, how powerful a CPU do we need to do what > we've > >>talked about? PIII - > >>1GHz range or low to mid range P4? Remember that > we > >>may need to go 2-3 > >>years into the future with it. > >> > >>Jim > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >> > > > > > > > You're not hijacking, that was mentioned earlier. > When we get this > computer installed, we'll have a built in audience > for just that kind of > activity. But, before anything else happens, we have > to have a computer! > Then we can strut our stuff and preen our feathers. > Oh, BTW, Blue Grass > Cith Hall is in the same building. First, we have to > have a computer! > > > My vote for CPU is the P4 or equivalent AMD. That > means full house, no > light weights. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From arronlorenz@gmail.com Mon Sep 24 22:37:28 2007 From: arronlorenz@gmail.com (Arron Lorenz) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:37:28 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <641477.31891.qm@web51803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <46F48600.50303@revealed.net> <641477.31891.qm@web51803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <30cf66b30709241437sc4d95a0mbb7112d1847ccc96@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Yes this is the interesting part... I havesome pieces parts that I can donate but as far as mono+proc I'm short on. So I guess we need to decide what we want then figure out who has what. On 9/22/07, RK wrote: > > Sorry, best I have sitting around (working at least) > is a PIII-500. > > Ron > > --- Jim Hall wrote: > > > RK wrote: > > > Don't want to hijack the thread, but could this be > > > leveraged into having a couple of sessions on > > using > > > Linux, configuring Linux, etc. The libraries are > > big > > > on training programs... > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > >>Good responses everyone. > > >> > > >>Now, how powerful a CPU do we need to do what > > we've > > >>talked about? PIII - > > >>1GHz range or low to mid range P4? Remember that > > we > > >>may need to go 2-3 > > >>years into the future with it. > > >> > > >>Jim > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > You're not hijacking, that was mentioned earlier. > > When we get this > > computer installed, we'll have a built in audience > > for just that kind of > > activity. But, before anything else happens, we have > > to have a computer! > > Then we can strut our stuff and preen our feathers. > > Oh, BTW, Blue Grass > > Cith Hall is in the same building. First, we have to > > have a computer! > > > > > > My vote for CPU is the P4 or equivalent AMD. That > > means full house, no > > light weights. > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user > panel and lay it on us. > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > -- From: Arron James Lorenz Reach Global Networks LLC MobileTek Inc 563-579-7046 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/bb8731f4/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From mrmagnum@mchsi.com Mon Sep 24 23:49:14 2007 From: mrmagnum@mchsi.com (Harley McClure) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:49:14 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS In-Reply-To: <30cf66b30709241437sc4d95a0mbb7112d1847ccc96@mail.gmail.com> References: <46F48600.50303@revealed.net> <641477.31891.qm@web51803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <30cf66b30709241437sc4d95a0mbb7112d1847ccc96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200709241749.14311.mrmagnum@mchsi.com> I've got a 2Gig Celeron Mobo I pulled from a fried e-Machine. I'm assuming the mobo is toast, as it wouldn't POST even after I replaced the power supply. The CPU and 2 256 MB RAM sticks may have survived, and I'd be happy to donate them to the cause. The eMachine was a T2042 if you want to check specs. I've also got the odd drive stacked in my spare pile. Harley On Monday 24 September 2007 04:37 pm, Arron Lorenz wrote: > Yes this is the interesting part... I havesome pieces parts that I can > donate but as far as mono+proc I'm short on. So I guess we need to decide > what we want then figure out who has what. > > On 9/22/07, RK wrote: > > Sorry, best I have sitting around (working at least) > > is a PIII-500. > > > > Ron > > > > --- Jim Hall wrote: > > > RK wrote: > > > > Don't want to hijack the thread, but could this be > > > > leveraged into having a couple of sessions on > > > > > > using > > > > > > > Linux, configuring Linux, etc. The libraries are > > > > > > big > > > > > > > on training programs... > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > >>Good responses everyone. > > > >> > > > >>Now, how powerful a CPU do we need to do what > > > > > > we've > > > > > > >>talked about? PIII - > > > >>1GHz range or low to mid range P4? Remember that > > > > > > we > > > > > > >>may need to go 2-3 > > > >>years into the future with it. > > > >> > > > >>Jim > > > >> > > > >>_______________________________________________ > > > > > > You're not hijacking, that was mentioned earlier. > > > When we get this > > > computer installed, we'll have a built in audience > > > for just that kind of > > > activity. But, before anything else happens, we have > > > to have a computer! > > > Then we can strut our stuff and preen our feathers. > > > Oh, BTW, Blue Grass > > > Cith Hall is in the same building. First, we have to > > > have a computer! > > > > > > > > > My vote for CPU is the P4 or equivalent AMD. That > > > means full house, no > > > light weights. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > QCLUG mailing list > > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > >___________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join > > Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From LMcKnight@bandag.com Tue Sep 25 19:42:11 2007 From: LMcKnight@bandag.com (McKnight, Lee) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:42:11 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Monitoring Products for Red Hat Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Does anyone have recommendations for monitoring products for Red Hat servers in a production commercial environment? Thanks, Mac............. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/8308a383/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer@revealed.net Sat Sep 29 04:19:32 2007 From: volunteer@revealed.net (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:19:32 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux VS MS References: <641477.31891.qm@web51803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46FDC444.302@revealed.net> RK wrote: > Sorry, best I have sitting around (working at least) > is a PIII-500. > > Ron > > Don't discount that. We may be able to place it as a router, firewall, print server, or whatever. Jim